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Hi.

 #123099  by Arios
 
I'm Arios, most of yall have seen me around. I was in JAWA for nearly 2 years. Recently a clan member of mine was banned for recruiting on your server in a desperate attempt to revive KoTp now I see why that was a ban to enforce even though yalls recruitment policy contradicts it. But now it appears I'm being threatened with a ban to despite never having done anything. Care to elaborate? The bans were lifted but I'd still like to know why I was to be banned when I did nothing.
 #123100  by jawfin
 
The answer to your question is here: -
http://www.knights-reborn.org/forum/vie ... 93#p123093
Specifically
In the event of a recruiter ban is immediate without warning as they are stealing something we've physically paid for - and if its a clan leader their whole clan is banned.
I hope that clears things up for you.
 #123102  by John
 
Arios wrote:Now I see why that was a ban to enforce even though yalls recruitment policy contradicts it.
Whaaaat?
 #123112  by Arios
 
You guys are invite only, and I know full well you guys dont invite just anyone. Hence where I see a contradiction. And no, that clears nothing up. That is pure discrimination against me. And its completely wrong. Judging a book by its cover.
 #123113  by Arios
 
Oh, and correct me if I'm wrong but you stated that its like a recruiter is stealing what you PAID for. Which sounds an awful lot like objectifying people.
 #123115  by Clank
 
The server is being payed so that we have visitors coming on it but taking these people away from the server is like someone coming in a restourant and telling people they should go to his restourant because it is better
 #123116  by Arios
 
Uhm, a restaurant that you can only get into if an employee INVITES you. Definitely not a good example for you to use imo.
 #123117  by Lothar
 
So your basically saying that because we don't just invite anyone into our clan who comes into view we are being discrimative by preventing other clans from recruiting people off of our server?

I really do not see what your issue is since the math is pretty simple: We pay for our server, why should we allow other clans to come onto it and take "potential" members? It's a bit like buying a plot of land, planting some seeds and then standing by and watching as your next door neighbours steals your crop.
 #123118  by BadWolf
 
I fail to see how this is a difficult concept:

KR is an invite-only clan, therefor they invite individuals that they like (ie: people who have been coming to the server for sometime and are liked by several members)

So the cut and dry of it is: you come to the server, play on it for a while then get invited if you follow the rules and interact with the members

There is no contradiction, it is a plain and simple concept. This does not give other clans the go-ahead to recruit on the server, KR is not the only clan to enforce this.
 #123119  by Arios
 
First of all, I did NOT say i was discriminated because i cannot recruit, I was discriminated because i was to be banned for something I had NOTHING to do with. Which is WRONG. Next up, my statements were merely how I see things, which is called an Opinion. As in I disagree with how you guys see it and everyone is entitled to their own views. And when I wasnt even the one that did anything to begin with why bother even arguing with me about it. Never the less, I was picked to be banned automatically for something I had nothing to do with, which I don't care how you guys want to do things that is wrong. Banning someone for nothing is wrong. If I didn't break the rule I did NOTHING wrong.
 #123120  by Arios
 
Oh, and I noticed how you all dodged the objectifying people comment. Good job.
 #123121  by Lothar
 
I refer you here, no one is arguing with you just stating fact:
Jawfin wrote:The answer to your question is here: -
http://www.knights-reborn.org/forum/vie ... 93#p123093
Specifically
In the event of a recruiter ban is immediate without warning as they are stealing something we've physically paid for - and if its a clan leader their whole clan is banned.
I hope that clears things up for you.
 #123122  by BadWolf
 
Arios wrote:Oh, and I noticed how you all dodged the objectifying people comment. Good job.
If I recall correctly, you were one of the JAWA members I liked, Arios, but right now you are behaving as if you were singled out.

You and your whole clan were banned because your LEADER sets the EXAMPLE, if the leader demonstrates recruiting is alright then the entire clan would follow his lead.

The issue was resolved, the fact you are still fighting something that is no longer fight-able shows that you are looking to start something.

Drop this futile argument, because you are not doing yourself or anybody else any favors.
 #123123  by jawfin
 
I usually sum up my points in the expectation that the reader could fill in the gaps. In the instances where this has not happened I will paint the full picture.

Firstly, the server is something we pay for, in actual money - and we pay more than most game servers so we can have a solid, high speed connection along with decent processing power, combined with instant support and strong anti-hacker measurements. The server is not an out-of-the-box game server, but a fully built operating system maintained by the KR Council which runs the server's executable (amongst other server related applications). This is also "paid" for indirectly by time, members who spend time making mods, customizing the maps and server settings, running games and events for visitors, making good relationships with other clans, and not to mention the significant time spent by one council member who is a computer programmer and has developed custom applications to help protect the server.

Now, the server is sovereign territory, it is not a subsidiary of any government, the laws of any particular country don't apply - it is not a democracy where all members vote on decisions, the closest political structure would be a military junta. Any clan paying for its server has the inherent right to rule it however they see fit. For instance if it was the clan's policy to ban everyone as soon as they connect that would not be admin abuse as they have paid for the right to behave like that. Abuse is when a clan contradicts their own commitments to how the sovereignty is run.

The current policies of the KR server on banning are such: anyone found hacking, attempting to disrupt the server or other players on it, even cheating to an unreasonable level, is banned. From a sovereign point of view this could be considered sedition (its a stretch, but you get the gist) and for many countries this carries the death penalty (note that the country won't resurrect that person afterwards, unlike a ban being lifted). There is zero tolerance of this activity, and KR has the technology to ensure these types are blocked from coming on server.

Now the issue on hand, that of recruiting. As stated this paid-for sovereign state has a right to rule as however they please, and our view of recruiting likened to theft. In the instance of KoTp they targeted a new visitor, someone who didn't even have the chance to be met by KR. Unlike your assumption the KR server isn't run for the sole purpose of recruiting more KR, its principle purpose is to give everyone a place to play fairly and have fun, and those visitors who are attracted to us are the ones we are obviously interested in joining with us. If they have no such interest then that's fine too - but that doesn't mean we are happy to have them stolen.

The case here is a clan leader doing the recruiting. From here: -
As a leader your activities sets the pace, standard and acceptable action of your clan on other servers - therefore your actions have their repercussions felt throughout your clan. Honestly, if I as a leader came to your server and recruited, I'd surprised if you allowed any KR on after that.
So it can only be opined that it's KoTp policy to recruit on servers even when that server explicitly states in the MOTD "No recruiting" - the KoTp leaders get this (1) (2), maybe they can explain it to you too. If not, let's just go with guilty by association - in my country if you associated with a murderer and was aware of the crime without actually participating in it, you personally would be tried for that murder too once caught - KR's policy is similar.

To fall back on the restaurant analogy; you've got your characters wrong. The Council are the managers and own the restaurant (bought and paid for), the KR admins and members are the staff, of varying levels of responsibility, and the visitors, including yourself, are the patrons. Just because a customer doesn't want to work for the restaurant doesn't mean we don't want them visiting or coming back. Anyone wrecking the joint (i.e. hackers) are immediately evicted and not allowed to return. Anyone handing out flyers for a competing restaurant (recruiters) are also immediately evicted. If that person happens to be the manager of that restaurant then none of their staff would be allowed in - how could you trust them?


i feel that, that after my full explanation that you still "don't get it" - but as this "admin complaint" is not an actual admin complaint I am now closing this topic.