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 #143356  by Fluffy
 
The war between Ayland and Behland has raged for 20 years. Millions dead on the battlefield. Millions more suffer as the economies of both kingdoms are squeezed to the limits to fuel the pointless feud. Children are starving, countless women widowed. There are barely any men left, and rumours are spreading that women might soon be conscripted to bolster the ranks of the armies of both sides.

You are one of those orphaned by the war. You were starving, and the military allowance was your last hope of feeding you and your 4 younger siblings. Because of you, they were able to have some semblance of a life.

But not you.

You've broken almost every bone in your body, some more than once. You've killed men with your bare hands, like an animal, so that you could continue providing for what's left of your family. You've long since left behind your humanity, your soul shattered beyond repair. But it doesn't matter, you still have your brothers and sisters.

That was yesterday, though. Everything changes today. If the military begins conscripting women, then your sister will certainly be amongst the first draft. But you can save her. You have a choice.

As the General on the front lines responsible for the final push into the Capital of Ayland, you are marching on a campaign to end this war once and for all. Between you and your goal lies 8 heavily fortified cities, which you must conquer to secure a path to the Capital. The siege at each city will be brutal, each lasting at least 6 months. The death toll from this final campaign is estimated at another 500,000 lives. And that is only the toll incurred on the battlefields. It is estimated a further 100,000 Ayland citizens will starve to death.

Upon your orders, your advisors have presented you with an alternative solution that will dramatically reduce the death toll, and end the war by taking the first city in just 6 months. Their advice to you is as follows:

Upon successfully taking the first city of Smalan, you shall order all 100,000 citizens to be executed. The elderly. The infirm. The women. The children. The babies. None shall be spared. This will send a clear message to the remaining commanders in the other 7 cities: Surrender or die. There will be no mercy.

You must now make your choice:

1) Discard your humanity and live the rest of your days a monster. Butcher 100,000 innocents to save your sister's life and hundreds of thousands of other lives from a meaningless death. But you must personally partake in the massacre to ensure the message is clear.

2) Stay the course, salvage what's left of your humanity and return home a hero. You will kill only those who step onto the battlefield, while sending your sister to a certain, bloody death. No one needs to know.

What do you do?
 #143357  by Frog
 
I set up a new, undiscovered area of the world, be it underground, high in the sky, etc. I gather the 100,000 innocents over there, and instruct them to be the pioneers of that area. I fake up the deaths of them by destroying what land they inhabited earlier, burn pig skin in clothing, no matter how long it took. Create craters, crumble structures, and slaughter pigs, sheep, all of that, to forge the death of them all. The amount of animals dead would be worth the lives of innocents, and ending the war in six months. I oversee the operation personally, with no possible spies to report otherwise.

Always a third option, imo. I cannot answer either otherwise.
 #143359  by John
 
number 1 obviously. Ends the wars, puts a damper on the over population problem, disourages future rebellions, and life is too short for to care what people think about you if what you do is for the greater good.
 #143360  by Mandalorian
 
Number one would be the most logical choice...

However I'm not ready to just slaughter innocents. I'd put more effort into stopping the pointless feud and somehow stop the war so that both parties are satisfied. I'm no pacifist, however I do oppose the idea of non-entertainmental violence, so I will do my best to first resolve the issue of the war, despite my weak and weary state, and this will be a good lesson for my siblings. Fight for what you believe in and for what is truly right and just, not what can taunt at the very definition of humanity.
 #143365  by Zaluk
 
I'll decide this with an Eddard Stark way of thinking and go #2

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 #143372  by Mnsomc
 
Option 3: Play JKA at home.

If Behland's victory and the estimated death tolls are so certain and Ayland would be scared enough to surrender after one city has fallen (after 20 years of war that pushed each country to the extreme), I don't believe there would've been a war in the first place. That said, I would cast a serious doubt on the estimates and efficacy of the alternative solution.

I don't believe this is a question of whether I want to cause innocent deaths since my sister (and presumably many more women) would be sent to "certain, bloody death" if I choose not to execute the innocent citizens of the first city. Whatever I choose, it's likely that the decision will be followed by countless innocent deaths.

But yeah, I'm not willing to execute 100,000 people for a strategy that I'm not even sure of the outcomes, so no option 1. Unless other options are available, it would be option 2 then.
 #143403  by Uscari
 
The scenario does not specify whether those men already fighting have been conscripted or not.

If they are, I'm going with Option 1, because I make no moral distinction between those civilians already forced to fight and civilians who are going to be forced to fight. End the senseless slaughter, kill the 100,000, because to me, it is litterally a choice between 100,000 or 500,000 innocents.

If they are not conscripted, and have chosen to fight, then I pick option 2, because they knew risks coming in, and are less under humanitarian moral protection then the 100,000 innocent civilians.
 #143586  by Fluffy
 
Thanks to everyone who responded. I always enjoy a good mental workout, and a good discussion is like icing on that cake. :)

I wanted to post this question up to see how well KR members respond to these games, and I am not disappointed at all!! The only thing I should have done was write a little more about the rules of engagement, per se. The point of these exercises isn't to 'solve the riddle', but rather think of it as an opportunity for reflection and growth. I've tried to paint the scenarios as accurately as I can according to human history, i.e:
Zhao Kuo assumed command in July 260 BC of an army reinforced to approximately 400,000 men... Zhao Kuo's hill fortification was besieged for 46 days. In September, having run out of food and water, his desperate army made several unsuccessful attempts to break out. The general was killed by Qin archers while leading his best troops. The Zhao army finally surrendered. Bai Qi ordered the captured soldiers to be executed, presumably by being buried alive;[1] the local population was hostile to Qin rule, and he was afraid the captured soldiers would revolt. 240 of the youngest soldiers were released to spread terror in Zhao.
Source
The range of eligible ages for conscripting was expanded to meet national demand during the World Wars. In the United States, the Selective Service System drafted men for World War I initially in an age range from 21 to 30 but expanded its eligibility in 1918 to an age range of 18 to 45.
Source

By drawing on actual events in human history, and conjuring a vivid scenario, we can actually learn something from history. In all my years of education, history was just a boring class where I was forced to memorise who did what, when. The most engaging discussion we had, was whether dropping the A-Bomb on Japan in WW2 was a good or bad decision. But that is such a wrong, binary view of the world. Black and white does not exist in the real world, only infinite shades of grey (it's definitely more than 50).

Now, if you put yourselves in the shoes of the protagonist described above, instead of thinking like you're in high school history class, try to feel what it's really like to be in that position. In that case, you might come up with Ned Stark as your answer (thanks Zaluk, I was hoping someone would pull out GoT!!). Either way, I want you guys to feel every word of the story before you answer the scenario I put up next (in the next few days...)

Finally, as I mentioned above, these sorts of questions don't have right and wrong answers, and you actually have a third choice (sorry Frog, the third answer isn't Batman). The third choice is "I don't have an answer". Why is this even valid? Because admitting you don't have the knowledge and wisdom to make a choice that you can accept is fine. There is nothing to be ashamed of. Admitting one's own shortcomings is just the first step to greater knowledge and wisdom.
 #143610  by RaVeN
 
Option 1 wont work. As you said, the war has been ranging for 20+ years right? Whatever the message; the chances of either side 'sending' or 'receiving' one through violence is non existent. Both sides by now have dug in mentally, the legacies are set.
Think more like Sunni and Shia, or Israel and Palestine.

No massacre is going to solve these problems, and probably would in fact incur more wrath from the opposing side thanks to Ayland propaganda.

Option 1 is simply terrible, inhumane, and selfish advice from your advisors. They are selling you snake oil.

Option 2 is the correct course of action.

Besides, I'm a General....and If I know me, and I do, I would be a full on corrupt General. Definitely corrupt enough to NOT have any of my family members forced to join the army.
Instead I would ship them off to a secure location, one that is well behind friendly territory lines.

Also, when I get home after the war, with my 'Hero's Return' and all, I'd 'ask' the then president/dictator to kindly 'step aside' while I casually hint at the thousand man militia behind me; men that would and will follow me to death.

Once upon my rightful station I would hold a war crimes hearing at the Capital of Ayland. On trial would be all of my advisors that told me to massacre innocent civilians as well as anyone else from the Behland ranks who engaged in such atrocities.

This is how I would, in the end, begin to bring peace to a war torn people: bringing victory to Behland, giving justice to Ayland, and granting mercy to the people.

Conquer, Punish, Rule.