[Richard]

Has the US and European Gov'ts let us down?

The corporate banks in teh west have been greedy far far too greedy.

take our money make shit loads of profit from investments etc etc and charge us the world and give us a tiny slice an incenstive

Now its bit them on the ass, Its up to tax payers to fit the bill and support mortgages.

Its wrong to say Bush (US) or Brown (UK) are at fault but they should have done more to prevent this happening.

Now we are all royally screwed and someone still is bound to be rubbing hands together raining in cash..

I think tax payers in US and UK have the right to feel pissed to be honest at the lazy efforts to put in place, this has been comng a long time, and now we are having to support mortgages from failed, greedy, risky banks.

And to top it off since businesses wont get credit, no purchases can be made and businesses will fall, many many people will lsoe jobs and cannot afford to survive in their house.

It may seem fine now, but dark times are ahead, whether it be your parents lose their jobs and what not, we are all in for a hard life over the next few years .. it may take months to kick in though

[Squall]

its hard to say rich, i mean for instance: what noticeable changes am i to expect from like the amount of tax i already pay..

People losing there jobs will hit the industry hard will take a while to rebuild that kind of damage, the more successfull stores are also going to have problems keeping workers as well i guess. everyone will be scrambling for a job big time and i think requirements on job apps will go down alot to allow people to get them quicker.. its just one big fail cascade. People also will be on benefits alot more than they are now, which is something i no both goverments where trying to prevent..

With food prices going up and taxes, we may as well start looking for 2-3 jobs. Heres what i think will happen: Minmum wage will be brought down, taxes slightly increased, people will be forced to do benefit fraud and a job to keep there family afloat/mortgage.. even though this is the 21st centuary.. it sucks when we are taking steps back rather than forward.


They shouldnt have let money drive there thinking/ideas tbh... money does not make the world go round: 2008 we all royally screwed.

obama who i think will win this election will "i hope" fix it for the americans.. where as.. well we have retards as politicians/prime ministers.. its like one retard after another.. hell il get in line while i can for a spot.

They need to stop listening to peoples wallets in the high places and start listening to the individual alot more imo. communism seems like a paradise compared to what we are going to get afaik.


I stick on my tinfoil hat now. lol

[Richard]

Well if Obama helps US it will help here aswell.

House prices and fuel prices have been influx for so long part of this was inevitable.

Less disposible income will mean less money for the tertery markets which in course filter to the secondary and primary markets.

Whats annoying is the big banks in the west here and US, greed they got so greedy taking all this money, making shit loads out of us.. me and you they make big bucks off our salary our savings.. now we the tax payer has to pay for its debts as they got too greedy..

people will struggle to get jobs as businesses will not survive or not have the money to employ staff..


Greed Greed Greed.. has led us all to this.. and yet the fat cats still roll in the cash

[Melissa]

"People losing there jobs will hit the industry hard will take a while to rebuild that kind of damage, the more successfull stores are also going to have problems keeping workers as well i guess. everyone will be scrambling for a job big time and i think requirements on job apps will go down alot to allow people to get them quicker.. its just one big fail cascade. People also will be on benefits alot more than they are now, which is something i no both goverments where trying to prevent.. "




I think its more the other way around

Businesses are going to fall apart (no funding and no customers or money coming into business) and people will lose jobs and not the other way round..


personally i say force the top dogs of teh banking execs for these organisations to pay back their huge bonuses to stabilise the business.. and not throw it at the government to pick up teh peices which is basically mean us forking out the bill..



get this I hear theres schemes setup to aid people struggling to pay mortgages, a building society will take over a proportion of your house (YES YOUR EQUITY) and they will take over half your mortgage and then get this they will CHARGE you RENT...

So in your time of need some greedy F**K takes half your property charges you rent and then makes a packet out of the revitalised property market

I know Im only 18, but many people my age or abouts here... what chance do we have of getting our own lifes and places to live without the greedy scum robbing us hand over fist...

[RaVeN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc

[RaVeN]

And then this one.

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/ind ... oId=183509

I'm not too worried about it. Ups and downs is apart of life and we about to go down. down down.

This is no Armageddon, this isn't the end. There are so many businesses still doing business...I mean com'on this is America. We have such a vast work force and resources. Same goes for Engand.

If a major corporation(s) fail more will take their place...many many more. Ones will then merge into bigger corporations with work on better polices and practices.

Later on down the road they will find legal loopholes and exploit them and they too will fall.

and thus...the circle of life will continue.

I know the true story isn't going to be so glamorous but lets face it. What is the worst that can happen?

When you step back and realize yes many people will lose their jobs and homes but new jobs are gonna come. People still need banks, people still need insurance. And where there is a need there is going to be business for it.


....and this "bailout" is the worst idea ever. I say let the corporations fail and go bankrupt. I don't want to spend my tax dollars putting money in lobbist's pockets and CEO bank accounts. They messed up they should pay for it.

Or are we living in a communist country all a sudden? I thought this was capitalism...my mistake.

[Chantelle]

I agree Raven

But I think its a little short sighted now

yes businesses are doing fine but if this problem exists still in a few weeks then the HIT will come montsh down the line

Businesses will fall but wont grow, because banks will not be able to get the credit , developers, if businesses cannot get credit which is what we are facing.. then we are seriously going back to a dark time

Yes your right there is a circle

But this is breaking the circle and if it plummetts too much we are going to go back to a 1920s complete crash..

a US 10 Dollar note is going to be worth less than the paper its printed on.



I do think the likes of Bush and Brown have to answer for it, brown was council of the Exchequer for the previous 13 years before PM, Bush has been in office for what 8 years?

Its not like a sudden shock, some of these things have been coming


Your right though the bail out is a cop out to the honest tax payer like you RaVeN.. we have had a similar thing here when a few banks gone...

You have every right to feel angry about it, your not going to be come an owner in a risky mortgage deals which will likely never get paid off and eat into the taxation you pay your way in society.

[Melissa]

And then this one.

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/ind ... oId=183509

I'm not too worried about it. Ups and downs is apart of life and we about to go down. down down.

This is no Armageddon, this isn't the end. There are so many businesses still doing business...I mean com'on this is America. We have such a vast work force and resources. Same goes for Engand.

If a major corporation(s) fail more will take their place...many many more. Ones will then merge into bigger corporations with work on better polices and practices.

Later on down the road they will find legal loopholes and exploit them and they too will fall.

and thus...the circle of life will continue.

I know the true story isn't going to be so glamorous but lets face it. What is the worst that can happen?

When you step back and realize yes many people will lose their jobs and homes but new jobs are gonna come. People still need banks, people still need insurance. And where there is a need there is going to be business for it.


....and this "bailout" is the worst idea ever. I say let the corporations fail and go bankrupt. I don't want to spend my tax dollars putting money in lobbist's pockets and CEO bank accounts. They messed up they should pay for it.

Or are we living in a communist country all a sudden? I thought this was capitalism...my mistake.

I know its not armageddon

Yes there is boom and bust in the circle of financial life

But this is looking to be alot more serious than that we could end up in a state of depression

thats the worry not the doom and gloom but the worry WHY because its been allowed to get this far as it seems more and mroe is left to us to fork the bill.


If things do go to pot then businesses in US will fall heavily, and will not be regenerated (no money to build them).. I know you think in US and UK things are all dandy but if this crashes it will be far from it. Businesses local govs will have no credit no cash.. no capital expenditure, so no developments order books dry up.. this is a global scale

Not just that.. I personally have no chance at all of getting my own property. I am not alone a lot of people our age are now going to be shafted.

YES YOU'RE right though why should you people be left to carry the debt of the greedy bankers..

Hopefully things wont go as bad as that but I see little signs of redemption.

[Richard]

To be fair Melissa you do sound a touch dramatic.

I am not going to get too worried or upset by the incidents at present.

If the situation does crash and deteroiorate massively into depression then my concerns raise heavily.

My thread point is Should our goveronment be selling us (Tax payers) out to Save these greedy idiots..

By the sounds of it we all agree they shouldnt and they have let us down by not preventing this situation arising.

However if you have equity , ISAs mortages I think people have right to be concerned, people work their honest lives support a family and the grredy bankers leave them destitute while teh bankers still have buckets of cash.


CONCLUSION

My point isnt about fear or worry its about the govt have sold us out... Not done enough, greedy bankers and fatcats have the riches and we are left with the debt..

And worse the situation could be worse as a result of the fears and the market instability.


this will ruinb families, I know money is money but when its your life, your equity your family and your future is screwed over its more empathetic.

I am more angry about the lack of leadership has arrisen to this


However
Squall and RaVeN I think you have possibly underestimated or misunderstood the "potent" of the situation if it were to get as bad as it could. However unless it happens its a better way to not worry about it.. your doing the right thing id say

[RaVeN]

Oh,

I whole heartedly agree that dark times are ahead. I won't deny that one bit. I'm already working on plans to revert to my old cheap eating habits - I.E. eating Roman noodles (....oh college...)

I'm not making lite of the situation ahead, I'm making lite of what other people have said is "the end of times"

That's bull.

Lives could be ruined, no doubt, in the worst ways. But (after a time) things will come back up. They have to. It's not like we are all going to revert to tribes or something. We all still need computers, the internet, food, transportation of some measure, we still need government during that time too (countless other examples that you don't need to read because you already know). All these need banks, investments and insurance companies.

In a world with so much modern "needs" businesses will emerge (and merge).

It's not going to be easy, or quick but it will happen.

I don't believe we will go back to the 1920's though. That just sounds like normal scaremongering from the mob. And I'm so over 1984. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard from economists, it wont be the "end of times" at least.

It's also true that no economist (crazy or logical) really knows what is going to happen, but they definitely all have their opinions.

Here is the one I like:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/29/ ... index.html

But no, I don't have a blindfold over my eyes. I am a realist...which might be the reason why I'm looking beyond.

[RaVeN]

As a second post, because they were two separate thoughts. I don't really worry much. I'm not a very worrying person. Especially on things I don't have control over.

Like the inevitable Zombie War that will happen in the future. I'm not worried about the Zombies - they're a given.
I'm worried about:
Where am I going to go when they attack?
Where can I get a gun quick (ammo too)?
Do I have a group of friends ready at a moments notice to escape New York? (check)
Do I have an NYC escape plan? (also check)
Do I know how to plant food be a farmer? (no check yet)
Could I shoot a friend on the spot if they get bitten? (also blank)

That's...kind of an example of how I work.

“Worry is like a rocking chair--it gives you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere.”

I cant remember the quote word for word or who said it but it went something like this:

90% of peoples worrying is pointless. half of that worry is in the past and therefore pointless, because it already happened - no way to reverse it. The other part is invested in future worries, and most of those worries the person is powerless to do something...therefore also pointless.

This crisis would fall under the category of "pointless worrying." I'm not saying this to be mean, but it is true.

Now "concerned" would be the right course to take here.

I would say I'm concerned...not worried.

I'm not splitting hairs either, there is a difference...one is healthy, the other is negative.

But this could be a reason as why my posts seem lighthearted?

[Richard]

You're damned right RaVeN this has been coming for so long why governments are slow to react is beyond me.

Dramatic and a bit doom gloomed as it may seem, I think what someone said 1920s is still on the cards..BUT

Thats a worse case scenario, a 1920s crash is very much possible still.. although to erradicate confusion to any readers 1928 or 9 was a huge market crash post WW1..

We just have to hope it all calms down and settles..

USA is in that much debt if its culled, the people who have had an honest life will go to their bank to find their pensions and savings dont exist. a similar although prob not as wide problem would exist here.

Serious questions then

1) Do any of you have Mortage?
2) Do you have equity value within (diposit percentage alighn with mortgage)
3) Pension scheme
4) ISAs
5) Bonds
6) Stakes or propietory in a business?

I unfortunateley can say 4 yes's to 6 of those

And after 11 years working and paying taxes and saving hard and now even obtaining equity I like many others have a right to feel worried and concerned.

ps what happened in 1984???? I were only 3

[RaVeN]

ps what happened in 1984???? I were only 3

The book "1984" - using fear as a means of control and misinformation.

[FlapJack23]

By the way Raven, I love that video, it made my day.