Knights Reborn

Greetings, KR

I am sad that this is the moment that finally made me create an account on your forums. With that being said, this post shows why this is very important to me. I have seen many “little things” over the years that admins have done since I have been here. Many things that I almost reported, but I figured that no one was perfect. Everyone is entitled to make a few mistakes. Despite this, I really felt discriminated against by Syzyx of KR by the incident that occurred on December 16th (edited) at around 12:00-1:30 a.m EST. Two things I want to say first

1.I do not know if Syzyx is an admin or not; he is, nevertheless, a KR member
2.I DO NOT wish to, nor is it my goal, to start a religious discussion (argument, conversation, etc…) in this thread

It all started when me and a friend were talking in public chat. I had mentioned to him in a PM over steam prior to this that I am a preacher. We were joking around about stuff, when he said over public chat that I was a pastor. I clarified that I was not a pastor, but a preacher. (Big difference)

A person on the server named Joshua Fireseed then said: God is not real

This obviously was a statement meant to incite something.( My complaint is not with Joshua) I guess at that point what I should have done is just shut up, but the fact is I did respond to his statement.

I quoted a portion of a Bible verse from Psalm 14 and verse 1: The fool hath said in his heart there is no God.

(Again I am NOT trying to start a religious discussion here)

I realize, that according to the letter of the law on KR, this probably should have been the time when the conversation was shut down, and I honestly expected Syzyx to do so. I was shocked at what he said next. I can understand anyone else in this community saying this, but not a member of KR who understands the rules of your server.

Syz replied with: ewwww. Bible = sux

( I have a screenshot of this moment and others, but I am not sure how to post them)

After this, I admit that I did respond, as you can see in the screenshot.

I replied: Truth. Bible.

And then, as you can also see in the screenshot, Syz said: Go die then

First of all, I shouldn’t have to explain of why this is offensive to me. I hold the Bible very highly. Syzyx claimed,” Bible = sux”. This is obviously a direct attack against my belief. Discrimination you might call it, and he then said,” Go die then”. We all know what this is really saying. He is saying because of the way I believe that I should “ go die then”. Is this statement approved of by this clan or the KR council?

He went on to say a lot of things about the Bible. While I do have several screenshots of the incident, I do not have screenshots of all the things he said. but if you did check the logs I am sure its there. ( have you heard that one before, Jawfin? lol). He said the Bible was BS, and he also told me to “stfu”. Needless to say, this is a direct discrimination against my belief. Also, (if you check the logs), for the majority of the time I was completely silent. I only answered Syzyx in a controversial way maybe twice while he continued to rant and rave about the Bible. ( I know that technically I shouldn't have said anything back to Syz, but that is hard when someone is attacking something that you believe strongly in.)

While I can’t find it in the official server rules, I have seen admin with binds saying to avoid religious discussion on the server or to take the discussion to PM. When I remembered this, I immediately stopped talking about the issue and instead invited Syz to talk about this in PM. I have a screenshot of that also. ( I still cant figure out how to post the screenshot)

Syzyx never accepted my invitation to discuss the matter in PM, instead he continued to slander my belief in the Bible over public chat. I then pretty much remained silent for the rest of his rant. I just watched the entire server rant and rave about the Bible issue. I did not say anything really.

Toward the end of it all, he replied again: so go die. Lol!

(Again I do have a screenshot for this, I just cant figure out how to post it)

My complaint is obvious. Is this behaviour acceptable by your clan? Was I not wrongfully discriminated against?

What do I want, you may ask? Well nothing really. I merely want to bring this situation to the light of the council. I am aware of how serious you take these complaints, and I am trying to be extra careful to fully explain what occurred so that nothing is exaggerated or taken out of context. I do not know what the council will decide, think, or act upon after viewing this situation. On my end, I will be willing to completely drop this if Syzyx will at least offer a sincere, public apology for his behaviour. As a Christian, I tolerate (not accept) a good many things on this server and in this world. It is not fair that the world doesn’t tolerate ( again, not accept) my views as well. His behaviour was rude, disrespectful, and discriminate.

I have quite a few screenshots actualy for a deeper insight as to what happened that night.

Most of you know me. I have been in the community for a while. You also know that, for the most part, I am a fairly reasonable guy. That being said, I am willing to discuss this issue in a calm, organized, and respectful manner. I am not here to be a jerk. I anxiously await the council's thoughts on the matter. Thank you all for your time. - Ret Larkin

As there's no proof offered I don't intend to act on this - but to answer your questions, I'll refer you to this post: -
http://www.knights-reborn.org/forum/vie ... hp?t=11616

Point: quoting Scripture is an invitation to be attacked - like it or not. I am not justifying any attack, just saying don't open that door when you already know what's on the other side.

Here is a link to all the screenshots I have of the incident. I apologize for originally posting with out evidence.

http://imgur.com/a/VEBg5.

Seeing this topic again a year later actually taking the time to read it (was busy back then); and forgive me for butting in on this, but

@jaw Sorry, but I think all complaints should be looked into. Ret has been with us for a while and while he had a few issues on our server before with temper he has been a good visitor and did bring fun duels to the server. He is a typical visitor. His voice should have been given a chance.

I mean, he even gave direct quotes, it should have been at least looked into.

@Ret Seeing those screenshots..Yeah, we definitely do not allow that sort of behavior in KR. The minor offense is the religion one through my eyes, but to tell someone to go kill themselves because of their belief? Now that is primitive. We definitely don't like seeing this, but we thank you for showing the evidence (despite it being possible to find in the logs), and hope the council is willing to take action of some sort this time.

Sorry for the inconvenient time you had on the KR server that day Ret.

From what I can discern the first go die then was directed at somebody else. Not Ret. As somebody that has experienced first hand how oversensitive Ret can be I believe this is massively blown out of proportion. Sure syz could have been a little more sensitive. But a full forum complaint over essentially nothing? welcome to the forums Ret.

@Mando
Lets take our own Family members opinion into account . He was clearly offended by ret's comments and spoke out. Syz says go die then a lot its like one of his catch phrases he doesn't actually mean it. Syz is a big sweety not vindictive or malicious. To attach this to syz is unfair and to demand council action against a family member over something so minor = over reaction.

@ Syz. Just apologize for offending Ret and everyone can move on:)

@Mandalorian: I had just spent over 3 hours looking into a complaint where the accuser provided no proof and it turned out to be a misunderstanding. Why should I put in more effort than the accuser? Ret knows my opinion of him - I hold him in high regard and have even invited him to join KR on a couple of occasions.

@Ret Larkin: I think at best we could ask Syzyx to apologise for his unrelenting intolerance, but we would not force it. A forced apology has no sincerity and is just insulting to both parties. That you are throwing it up now after many months lacks credibility and it comes across that you are holding it as a grudge.

I may also state that after Syz stated his personal opinion of his insights of the Bible you then go quote that Psalm; what precisely did you expect? Indeed, considering his opinion quoting that verse just re-enforced it. (My argument being that is he maintains the Bible has no value, quoting it to state he is a fool just further supports his opinion of it's worth.)

This is a direct logical analysis: beliefs and opinions notwithstanding. I think the time for any discipline on our part passed us by quite a few months ago.

@Syzyx: We run a game server where everyone can come and play, to be free from the cares of this world - so they leave the server a more relaxed person than when they joined. You do not have the right, or the authority, to deprive them of that. This is the one thing we have no tolerance for. Please keep your more inflammatory remarks to yourself.

To clarify: I made a typo in my original post. I originally said March 16th. That was a mistake. This actually happened early this morning on December 16th. I don't know what I was thinking. I know that seems like a convenient typo, but here is proof that we were indeed both on the server last night( or rather early this morning in EST). Gametracker links.

http://www.gametracker.com/player/-%5BK ... org:29070/

http://www.gametracker.com/player/Ret%2 ... org:29070/

@manda thank you for your support. I am aware it is not a light thing to accuse a member of your "family". I appreciate your honesty.

@yama I admire the zeal, respect, and honor you have for KR. I respect you a lot. But that being said, I think it wrong for you to try to negate everything about this incident by saying I was "oversensitive" and "overreacting". Also it doesn't matter if he was talking to me or was joking. Telling someone to kill themselves is not something to joke about. In the link that Jawfin posted to the freedom of speech thread, he said that we have players from age 8- 60. Do you really want a member of your clan telling anyone to kill themselves? Even an 8 year-old? even if Syz was just joking? I repeat for emphasis, Telling someone to kill themselves is NOT a joke.

@jaw I realize that quoting scripture on the server probably wasn't the wisest thing to do. I guess if you really wanted to, you could pin this whole incident on me. I said in my original post that I probably should have just kept my peace.

Also, I do have proof of this incident. The screenshots are in the link

Also, the quote was not aimed at Syz. It was toward Joshua Fireseed. It was only AFTER I quoted this that syzyx began his tirade. And, I already gave proof of, this was at 12:00- 1:00 am EST this morning, December 16th . I don't think "time has run out" to act on this.

Thank you all for your time.- Ret Larkin

In light of that edit I'm throwing this to Council pending our decision.
Please do not expect too much in the way of discipline though, I feel you walked into a place you know you should not have gone. (The game itself is based around aliens following the religion of the Jedi.)
For everyone else: http://www.knights-reborn.org/forum/vie ... hp?t=12651

OK OK yes I made a mistake! and got offended that he was pushing his book, which, IMO is not actaully a religion. And I was only meaning to offend (ruffle feathers) of ppl who can't be light hearted about it.

This is no way for a Jedi Master to act...I could blame alcohol, but I'm usually pretty abrasive towards that type of stuff anyway. I apolagize to -[KR]- for misrepresnting you all.

Obviously a 'preacher' is gonna take all this way too seriously! And btw what is death? we all die.. so asking some one to die could be seen as redundant and or meaningless, or if like me, you belive in a wonderful afterlife, then death is to be looked forward to as a rebirth into the heavenly realms, or some vestbule thereof.

I like Ret, and also... I have a God, it's just that when I found my God, I realized that the bible is a mere historical document, or collection of documents by many authors, some of which did indeed behold the presence of the Divine, and some who definetly had a long way to go. So he started off on a bad foot claiming that it was some BIG DEAL or something.. Of all the flaming that was going on that day, I did not mean to add to it, i should have said leave me alone or please stop wiht the religion stuff.. but I made an error and did more than ruffled some feathers. Actually i would have /ignored the whole conversation if I had been paying attention earlier.

The Psalms have always been my favorite part of the bible, if I have one. You can sense the psalmist's nearness to the lord. But the bible also launced the crusades, and has been and still is an instrumental crutch upon which the rich and militarily predisposed wreak mass suffering upon the bulk of christianity and others. just sayin'.

Sorry i was rude. When I see Ret I will apolagize personally and give him some time to vent.. erm, i mean tell me his side of this story.

Thanks for that Syz.

Ret, back to you mate - now that the emotion of the day has cooled somewhat, and the asked for apology has been given, what say you?

Thanks everyone for their willingness to listen to my report.

I hardly think I was pushing my belief. I claimed the Bible was truth, and I quoted one verse. I was silent for the rest of the time you ranted. With all due respect, It was more you who was pushing your belief. Also, I highly doubt when you said to "go die!" that you mean for me to enter into a pleasant afterlife.

While I do not accept your beliefs about the Bible, I do, however, respect your point of view. I hope you can offer me the same courtesy.

All of this aside, I fully accept Syzyx's apology. I believe he was sincere about his apology. I have always liked Syzyx. Good guy, good duelist. As, I said before I fully accept his apology, and I am ready to move on. All that's left is to hand this back to Jawfin and wait for him to conclude this topic.

Thanks again for your time, all- Ret Larkin

Cheers guys and thanks for the happy result. We've all been elevated somehow by our learning experiences.

Peace out