Knights of the Old Republic: Canon? Or not?
PostPosted:Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:04 pm
Alright, so I'll be giving my reasons as to why I believe the KotOR series is canon.
First, I'd like to start with the Mandalorian Wars. During the canon TV series, "The Clone Wars", there is a story arc where Jedi General Obi-wan Kenobi goes to the planet of Mandalore, after hearing rumours that they are planning to join the separatist cause. Obi-wan then speaks to the leader of Mandalore, and asks why the Jedi order and the Republic should trust them, given past events and violence. The events he might be purely referencing is the infamous Mandalorian wars, where tons of Republic soldiers, Jedi, and mandalorians alike died.
One might say this isn't enough to say that the Mandalorian Wars happened, except, maybe it is. Given that the place where the last battle during the Mandalorian Wars was mentioned in another episode in the Clone Wars show, when a Republic general was stranded on a wasteland planet, and in anger and frustration, upon asking his droids what had happened he yelled "What in the name of Malachor happened?!". The mere fact he mentioned the place confirms it is canon, however more than that, he used it as if it were a curse, as in "What the hell happened". Comparing hell to the final battle of the Mandalorian Wars is quite a good comparison. Most if not all of the surviving soldiers of that war either fell to the darkside, or became mad.
Given the Mandalorian Wars were canon using this, it can be assumed that the generals that took place in the war were canon as well, such as Revan and the Exile, and their companions considering their large role that coincided with the war.
My next example, references from the Mandalorians themselves. In the show The Clone Wars, a Mandalorian rebel group known as Death Watch attempted to 'redeem themselves' in the eyes of their ancestors' by going back to their violent ways, assigning clans, and sharing a code of honour (though flawed if you ask me, Death Watch got their mandalorian honour code messed up a bit, I should know). During a fight between the leader of clan Vizsla, (which is a clan that was around during the old republic era), Pre Vizsla mentioned that he retrieved the dark coloured lightsaber from a jedi temple during the fall of the Old Republic. Looking back at canon Star Wars history, there were no mentions of battles where Mandalorians invaded Jedi temples, unless you look at the Mandalorian Wars lore, where there have been such raids. Not to mention the fact that he brought up the Old Republic in the first place, it makes you wonder why he called it the old republic rather than simple the republic, unless it was a specific era he was mentioning. The old republic era.
In the TV series, "Star Wars: Rebels", when Hera, a twi'lek pilot for the rebel alliance, goes to get supplies supplied by Fulcrum, she and Sabine, a Mandalorian, pass by a set of crates. The place where they were to receive the supplies from, was said to be an old republic base. At first, this doesn't seem to shocking, as the republic in Star Wars: Rebels is 15 years old, however, when looking at the crates they pass by, they have a familiar logo on them. The logo of the Old Republic, used in Star Wars: The Old Republic, the MMO that tells the after events of the KotOR series. Sure, it's just a logo, but the fact that it references that during that era, the old republic logo remained the same through canon and legacy, perhaps other things did also, such as the KotOR series.
During an episode of "Star Wars: The Clone Wars", Obi-wan Kenobi, disguised as a mercenary to discover a plot against Palpatine's life, had to endure "the box". A separatist device which served like a training center to see if a mercenary is fit the job the separatists have to offer. One of the mercenaries with Obi-wan Kenobi, was a Selkath, a creature first introduced in KotOR. You may think that, "ok, that just confirms the creature, not really anything else from the KotOR universe". Except, later on Count Dooku introduces the Selkath by saying something along the lines of "Your species were once peaceful beings, who sought to keep neutrality. How far have they fallen". This line shows that not only are the Selkath canon, but their beliefs on staying neutral as seen in KotOR. Say neutral from what? The Jedi Civil War, another great event during the KotOR series.
This next example can be somewhat accepted, though I understand if it is excluded from consideration. During the Star Wars Clone Wars TV series, there is a story arc where Anakin, Ashoka, and Obi-wan follow a distress signal sent by a Jedi, however this distress signal was one that was not used for millenniums (hmm, millennium..how long ago was kotor? oh, 3 millennium...hm). The three are later greeted by force entities and visions of time. During the making of the episode, the original ideas were to have Darth Revan, Darth Bane, and Darth Traya to speak with Anakin, rather than his mother. Darth Revan, possibly the "Revan Reborn" form, would try to convince Anakin that turning to the darkside could save people. Darth Bane would convince him that there are no evils to be seen in the Sith, and that it would be wise of him to go over to the darkside. Darth Traya would attempt to convince Anakin, in a similar way that Palpatine did, that the Jedi are evil and corrupt, using the Mandalorian wars as an example. This idea was canned, mainly because they didn't want to focus on three ghosts of sith lords, and wanted to use the ghost of Anakin's mother and Qui-Gon to make a more personal connection with Anakin, so that even when the events pass over, he would think to himself that he had simply imagined it rather than meeting ghosts of death sith lords which he had never heard of, and to preserve the idea that Jedi aren't accustomed with seeing force ghosts. The 3D models of Revan and Bane were completed however, and some animations were already in progress.
This is what his appearance in the Clone Wars would have looked like:
This entire post was simply all that I could remember, all from pure memory, so I could have missed some references or hints...
BUT, I saved the best for last. Something that actually IS canon, 100% included in the star wars universe which plays a key point to the events within the KotOR series. Rakata Prime.
In the new movie
(SPOILERS)
The Force Awakens, at the end of the movie R2-D2 is shown bringing up a map of the whole Star Wars Universe, and although not all the planets were shown, some where. One of some of those planets, was Rakata Prime.
The left shows the scene from the movie, with the planet highlighted, and the right is a snip from the book "The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary", showing that Rakata Prime is on the map of known planets (right next to Jakku no less, wow, we were right next to it without even knowing).
Here is a link to the Wookiepedia page of Rakata Prime, stating it's canon status:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakata_Prime
This next bit isn't really part of this, but is mere speculation. Speculation on how Darth Revan changed all of Star Wars history to make the movies what they are now.
During the Mandalorian wars, the Jedi Order was a separate thing from the Republic. They had no ties with the Republic other than they tended to share the same beliefs. It was during the wars that the Republic asked the Jedi Council to assist them, however, they refused, saying they sensed a greater evil arising should they join. (Canderous Ordo actually believes that the "evil" the Jedi Council predicted was the Republic bankruptcy due to the Jedi Civil War that follows it. Speak with Canderous on this topic, his views on who really should have won are quite interesting). Darth Revan left the Jedi Order and became one of the first republic Jedi generals, along with the Jedi Exile.
Around a decade later, the Jedi Exile and her companions were all that was left of the Jedi order, them and of course Darth Revan, who was not to be found until 300 years later. Kriea told the Jedi Exile the future, predicting that Mical, a force sensitive companion to the Exile, would go and rebuild the Jedi Order. But if you think about it...Mical never was really trained by the true Jedi Order, he was only taught by the Exile, who was one of the first republic's Jedi generals. Mical could have subconsciously have adapted this as part of his teachings, to say that the Jedi are servents of the republic, brought on to keep the peace. Not to mention with Mical's ties with the republic priour to being a Jedi, he would obviously later incorporate it into his teachings.
So, the Jedi Order rebuilds, learning from Mical, who learned from the Jedi Exile, who followed Revan. Revan's devotion to the Republic changed the way the future Jedi Order acted, and it eventually led up to the Clone Wars, where almost every Jedi would be considered a Jedi general, serving the republic like a high ranked officer, which also led to Palpatine's easy control over the Jedi's actions within some affairs during the wars.
Wow, lot of typing. Tell me what you think, if you even read all this.
First, I'd like to start with the Mandalorian Wars. During the canon TV series, "The Clone Wars", there is a story arc where Jedi General Obi-wan Kenobi goes to the planet of Mandalore, after hearing rumours that they are planning to join the separatist cause. Obi-wan then speaks to the leader of Mandalore, and asks why the Jedi order and the Republic should trust them, given past events and violence. The events he might be purely referencing is the infamous Mandalorian wars, where tons of Republic soldiers, Jedi, and mandalorians alike died.
One might say this isn't enough to say that the Mandalorian Wars happened, except, maybe it is. Given that the place where the last battle during the Mandalorian Wars was mentioned in another episode in the Clone Wars show, when a Republic general was stranded on a wasteland planet, and in anger and frustration, upon asking his droids what had happened he yelled "What in the name of Malachor happened?!". The mere fact he mentioned the place confirms it is canon, however more than that, he used it as if it were a curse, as in "What the hell happened". Comparing hell to the final battle of the Mandalorian Wars is quite a good comparison. Most if not all of the surviving soldiers of that war either fell to the darkside, or became mad.
Given the Mandalorian Wars were canon using this, it can be assumed that the generals that took place in the war were canon as well, such as Revan and the Exile, and their companions considering their large role that coincided with the war.
My next example, references from the Mandalorians themselves. In the show The Clone Wars, a Mandalorian rebel group known as Death Watch attempted to 'redeem themselves' in the eyes of their ancestors' by going back to their violent ways, assigning clans, and sharing a code of honour (though flawed if you ask me, Death Watch got their mandalorian honour code messed up a bit, I should know). During a fight between the leader of clan Vizsla, (which is a clan that was around during the old republic era), Pre Vizsla mentioned that he retrieved the dark coloured lightsaber from a jedi temple during the fall of the Old Republic. Looking back at canon Star Wars history, there were no mentions of battles where Mandalorians invaded Jedi temples, unless you look at the Mandalorian Wars lore, where there have been such raids. Not to mention the fact that he brought up the Old Republic in the first place, it makes you wonder why he called it the old republic rather than simple the republic, unless it was a specific era he was mentioning. The old republic era.
In the TV series, "Star Wars: Rebels", when Hera, a twi'lek pilot for the rebel alliance, goes to get supplies supplied by Fulcrum, she and Sabine, a Mandalorian, pass by a set of crates. The place where they were to receive the supplies from, was said to be an old republic base. At first, this doesn't seem to shocking, as the republic in Star Wars: Rebels is 15 years old, however, when looking at the crates they pass by, they have a familiar logo on them. The logo of the Old Republic, used in Star Wars: The Old Republic, the MMO that tells the after events of the KotOR series. Sure, it's just a logo, but the fact that it references that during that era, the old republic logo remained the same through canon and legacy, perhaps other things did also, such as the KotOR series.
During an episode of "Star Wars: The Clone Wars", Obi-wan Kenobi, disguised as a mercenary to discover a plot against Palpatine's life, had to endure "the box". A separatist device which served like a training center to see if a mercenary is fit the job the separatists have to offer. One of the mercenaries with Obi-wan Kenobi, was a Selkath, a creature first introduced in KotOR. You may think that, "ok, that just confirms the creature, not really anything else from the KotOR universe". Except, later on Count Dooku introduces the Selkath by saying something along the lines of "Your species were once peaceful beings, who sought to keep neutrality. How far have they fallen". This line shows that not only are the Selkath canon, but their beliefs on staying neutral as seen in KotOR. Say neutral from what? The Jedi Civil War, another great event during the KotOR series.
This next example can be somewhat accepted, though I understand if it is excluded from consideration. During the Star Wars Clone Wars TV series, there is a story arc where Anakin, Ashoka, and Obi-wan follow a distress signal sent by a Jedi, however this distress signal was one that was not used for millenniums (hmm, millennium..how long ago was kotor? oh, 3 millennium...hm). The three are later greeted by force entities and visions of time. During the making of the episode, the original ideas were to have Darth Revan, Darth Bane, and Darth Traya to speak with Anakin, rather than his mother. Darth Revan, possibly the "Revan Reborn" form, would try to convince Anakin that turning to the darkside could save people. Darth Bane would convince him that there are no evils to be seen in the Sith, and that it would be wise of him to go over to the darkside. Darth Traya would attempt to convince Anakin, in a similar way that Palpatine did, that the Jedi are evil and corrupt, using the Mandalorian wars as an example. This idea was canned, mainly because they didn't want to focus on three ghosts of sith lords, and wanted to use the ghost of Anakin's mother and Qui-Gon to make a more personal connection with Anakin, so that even when the events pass over, he would think to himself that he had simply imagined it rather than meeting ghosts of death sith lords which he had never heard of, and to preserve the idea that Jedi aren't accustomed with seeing force ghosts. The 3D models of Revan and Bane were completed however, and some animations were already in progress.
This is what his appearance in the Clone Wars would have looked like:
This entire post was simply all that I could remember, all from pure memory, so I could have missed some references or hints...
BUT, I saved the best for last. Something that actually IS canon, 100% included in the star wars universe which plays a key point to the events within the KotOR series. Rakata Prime.
In the new movie
(SPOILERS)
The Force Awakens, at the end of the movie R2-D2 is shown bringing up a map of the whole Star Wars Universe, and although not all the planets were shown, some where. One of some of those planets, was Rakata Prime.
The left shows the scene from the movie, with the planet highlighted, and the right is a snip from the book "The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary", showing that Rakata Prime is on the map of known planets (right next to Jakku no less, wow, we were right next to it without even knowing).
Here is a link to the Wookiepedia page of Rakata Prime, stating it's canon status:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakata_Prime
This next bit isn't really part of this, but is mere speculation. Speculation on how Darth Revan changed all of Star Wars history to make the movies what they are now.
During the Mandalorian wars, the Jedi Order was a separate thing from the Republic. They had no ties with the Republic other than they tended to share the same beliefs. It was during the wars that the Republic asked the Jedi Council to assist them, however, they refused, saying they sensed a greater evil arising should they join. (Canderous Ordo actually believes that the "evil" the Jedi Council predicted was the Republic bankruptcy due to the Jedi Civil War that follows it. Speak with Canderous on this topic, his views on who really should have won are quite interesting). Darth Revan left the Jedi Order and became one of the first republic Jedi generals, along with the Jedi Exile.
Around a decade later, the Jedi Exile and her companions were all that was left of the Jedi order, them and of course Darth Revan, who was not to be found until 300 years later. Kriea told the Jedi Exile the future, predicting that Mical, a force sensitive companion to the Exile, would go and rebuild the Jedi Order. But if you think about it...Mical never was really trained by the true Jedi Order, he was only taught by the Exile, who was one of the first republic's Jedi generals. Mical could have subconsciously have adapted this as part of his teachings, to say that the Jedi are servents of the republic, brought on to keep the peace. Not to mention with Mical's ties with the republic priour to being a Jedi, he would obviously later incorporate it into his teachings.
So, the Jedi Order rebuilds, learning from Mical, who learned from the Jedi Exile, who followed Revan. Revan's devotion to the Republic changed the way the future Jedi Order acted, and it eventually led up to the Clone Wars, where almost every Jedi would be considered a Jedi general, serving the republic like a high ranked officer, which also led to Palpatine's easy control over the Jedi's actions within some affairs during the wars.
Wow, lot of typing. Tell me what you think, if you even read all this.
